Lord of the Flies
Chapter Two: Fire on the Mountain
In this chapter the boys begin to organize in groups, most importantly, the leadership and the hunters.
The main characters are Ralph, Jack and "Piggy."
Which of the boys do you think represents morality and leadership?
Which one represents desire for power and selfishness?
Who stands for rationality and intellectualism?
In the comments section below, tell me which characters stand for which trait, and why.
Here is a link to the audio Chapter two starts at 53:14 and ends at 1:25:20. Remember you can slow it down to .75 speed, which is what we were listening to in class.
Test your knowledge of chapter two by taking this online quiz.
27 comments:
Which of the boys do you think represents morality and leadership?
I think is Ralph because he has Charisma to be a leader. The children put attention when he is talking about something that they need do.
Which one represents desire for power and selfishness?
I think is Jack because he is the Choir leader and now he has to share the power and leadership with Ralph. He is authoritarian, competitive and powerful. He wants that all the kids make it that he wants.
Who stands for rationality and intellectualism?
I think is Piggy because he is smart and creative. He tries to do the things with logic. He looks the things with intelligent and he thinks before do it.
I think Piggy chose a way of logic and morality: he tried to take care about little kids, he answered Ralph and Jack logic questions. He asked in this way: ok, we did this, this and this, but what will be next? He tried to keep an order: we can do this, but we forgot about this. He this to be logic and consistent. One more an important moment: he tried to be listened: Jack and Ralph did not give him to speak, but he explained them that it was against their rules.
Jack chose selfish and authoritorian way. He listened only himself and sometimes Ralph. In general he didn’t want to be agree with Ralph but he ought to do it, because Ralph had power and authority too (other kids listened him). For Jack staying in an uninhabited Island is not a problem, for him it is competitions. He likes to create rules, to break them and do what he wants.
Honestly I didn’t understand yet which way to choose Ralph. No debts he represents leadership: kids respect him and listen. I think he feels responsibility for little kids, because he felt shame when one kid disappeared (the last scene of Chapter 2). Also he tried to protect them when he explained kids that there were no beasts on the island.
Marina V.
I agree with Marina that Piggy is the most suitable leader. He is distinguished by his intellect, ingenuity and real understanding of the situation. But it does not have external features, which is very important in the wild environment.
Two other characters - Ralph and Jack - both seek power, both think primarily about themselves.
Ralph stabds for civilizstion, morality and leadership. Jack stands for desire of power, selfishness and amorality. Piggy represents scientific and intellectual aspects of civilization. Damira
1: humans are naturally self-serving , and in need of rules of morality.
2: the novel is interesting. a group of boys started their new life in an island . How do they survive and how do they overcome all the obstacles they are facing . It is a challenge for their physical and psychological .
3: I got to know some Jewish custom and the history about Nazi.
4: Ralph represents morality and leadership because he showed his ability to give order to do something.
Jack represents desire for power and selfish because he always showed himself as a leader.
Piggy stand for ratinality and intellectualism. He gave ideas to Ralph .
Kun.
1.In extraordinary situations humans can show their good or bad sides. It depends of their upbringing. In emergency situations have to be a strong , intelligentand respectful leader, who will help people to organize their rescue,support them and gather a activ group of positiv people, which will coordinate future actions of the whole group.
2.At the beginning the novel looks like a story about adventures of group of boys on uninhabited island like "Treasure Island" by Stevenson.
But I think it is a physiological drama where a group of boy on the island after plane crash is a model of human society in extraordinary
situation.
3.I liked the museum that we visited last week. I was in many museums where were collected information about the World War Two. But the whole composition of this museum shows us the VICTORY OF LIFE inspite of that hard times. It gives us the hope for good future of humanity.
Damira
Ralph represents morality and leadership. He organized the boys and tried to build civilizations on the island until they can be rescue.
Piggy represents smart and logic thinking. He always talks about reasonable solutions and he has smart ideas.
Jack represent self-serving and desire for power. He would like to control and manage all boys.
I think Ralph is morality and leadership. Even though piggy find the conch first,he can't be a leader of the child. When Ralph take the conch to call everybody together,they all think Ralph should be a leader. Cause he looks kind and know many things. But I think he isn a powerful leader.
I think jack is desire for power and selfishness. At first he wants to be a leader because he used to be a leader. But other child chose Ralph as a leader,he not willing that. So he wont listen to Ralph for everything, he has his opinion and also will order to other child. So he ask piggy to shit up.
I think piggy stands for rationality and intellectualism. Even though he can't be a leader,he is smart and his heart is very kindness. He knows they won't chose him as a leader,he also help Ralph to call them together. And help the little boy get conch to speak. He won't bully other boys.
Which of the boys do you think represents morality and leadership?
It’s Ralph,he is attractive and good looking boy, and mostly because his father is commander in the Navy, he has his own idea and experience about the island.
His first important decision was the everyone should determine if this place was an island. After they discovered the unihabited island, he made his second decision was they should light up the fire to be noticed for rescue.
Which one represents desire for power and selfishness?
It’s Jack, when they voted for the leader, and he said because he was the choir leader and he could sing the C sharp, he tried to prove his authority.
He always dissatisfied with Ralph, he doesn’t willing obey Ralph’s mission.He doesn’t respect Piggy again and again, always interrupts when Piggy talking his own ideas.
Who stands for rationality and intellectualism?
It’s Piggy, he has rich logical thinking skills.He thinks carefully a lot about the situation and clearly what they have to do or prepare for next plan. He is the only one act as an adult.
Ralph is a charming and attractive, and he assigns tasks for each kids. He also wants everyone to follow rules (when they want to talk something need to take the conch).
Jack is a aggressive and selfish boy, and he loves power. (When piggy wants to talk, he is not respect him.)
Piggy is a smart and insecure boy. He always gives goods ideas to Ralph(have a meeting and others) but he always depends on Ralph too.
Which of the boys do you think represents morality and leadership?
I think,Ralph has the best conducts of a real leader as he was initially voted for chief. There are three main characteristics that mark him out as a felicitous leader: rational, moral and unflinching.
Which one represents desire for power and selfishness?
At the beginning we see Jack as a choir leader, after then they are in fear of him as they obey his order.Also occurs when he is constantly dismissing Piggy and telling him to "shut up".
Who stands for rationality and intellectualism?
Piggy had the only way he could relate to the other boys was at an intellectual level.
1. Ralph represents leadership and morality. He gives the right to speak out to that one who raise his hand and get the conch. That is an expression of democracy, equality and consideration of a community. The serie of rules given by Ralph show sense of order and organization. He assumed and is conscious of the responsibility as a leader.
2. Jack, that is lacking of all the qualities Ralph possess, is waiting for the moment to create instability to break the group down.
3. Piggy is the most human character. He was the owner of the most important ideas and remember the group to keep in mind who is the leader and what are the rules when there is an episode of insubordination...
In this chapter Ralph shows his leadership and morality, listening to Piggy’s ideas, giving equality to his peers through voting and establishing roles for everybody to contribute to the group. Jack, on the other hand, exposes his power hungry and egocentrism, looking for the weakness of others and trying to control all situations. Finally, Piggy displays his creative and smart ways to face the challenge to live in a deserted island.
Which of the boys do you think represents morality and leadership?
I think that Ralph is a morality leader. He makes a rule which all the boys have to raise their hand to talk and no one can speak unless they're holding the conch shell. That means the kids have to follow the rule and keep organize.
Which one represents desire for power and selfishness?
Jack is the one represents desire of power and selfishness. He used to be a hand boy and also he is a leader of choir. That's why he wants to be the chief of the boys. And he always breaks the rule. Even Piggy is holding the conch shell, he interrupted Piggy's word.
Who stands for rationality and intellectualism?
Piggy stands for rationality and intellctualism. He is clear about what situation they have and what should they do. He also find the conch shell and propose that all the boys to have a meeting.
In fact, three boys show certain leadership qualities. Ralph draws with his calmness and confidence, he expresses confidence in salvation, gives hope to the boys, decides to light the fire. Jack is confident in himself, he knows how to organize his chorus, has management experience as the head of the class. Jack harshly commands his little detachment, he does not allow participants to relax without his permission.For Jack it's important to be the main, the first. He also self-affirms at the expense of Piggy, does not allow him to say his opinion. Piggy is able to think logically, he gives the idea to count the boys on the island, he expresses the idea that they may not be saved, he realizes that before you act, you need to have a plan and organization. Piggy worries about losing a little boy.
a. Piggy: Intelligent, beacause being the most physical limited of the boy, think more advanced than all. He thinks before acting and he is the one with the best ideas to survive on the island. b. Ralph: Wise because he is still the leader, even he doesn’t quality for the position, he don’t think before acting. All his good ideas como from piggy. c. Jack: Ambitious and thirsty for power , Jack’s leadership is fear , killing , violence, he makes other afraid and even not being the leader he acts like one.
Humans are naturally self-serving, in need of rules of morality and even legal.I think the novel will be a tragedy, the boys will hurt each other for power.
I wonder why Hitler killed the Jews, in my opinion, there are five reasons:
1>Religion--Judaism does not recognize Jesus as the Son of God.
2>Political --Jews engage in communist movements
3>Economic--The European banking about 30%-40% in the hand of the Jews
4>Culture --There were about 40%-50% of Jews were doctors, lawyers, judges, professors in European.
5>The Jews did not have their own independent country at the time until Israel was established.
Irma,
The boys' first law is focused on the conch and made by Ralph. They make rules.
Ralph blows the conch to call another meeting, He announces that they are on uninhabited island, and they will have to take care of themselves, Jack needs to be in control, because He interrupts to Ralph to demonstrate his importance.
Only Piggy sees the big picture. Ralph and the other boys focus on short term pleasure and fun. The beast's first appearance. It symbolizes the evil in human nature. Jack is the symbol of savagery, He uses the beast to make himself more powerful. Ralph is the symbol of civilization, just denies that the beast exists. Piggy glasses is symbol of technology, Fire leads to rescue, which leads back to civilization,
Morality and leadership: Ralph
A desire for power and selfishness: Jack?
Rationality and intellectualism: Piggy
With the new chapter, the main characters figuring out the leadership abilities, we are witnesses their different point of view as well as there diverse behaviors.
In my opinion, Ralph represents morality and leadership as he shows the group of kids is vision about the rescue plan. he has an idea and he is not afraid to stand up in front of the group and make actions.
Piggy appears as the most intelligent character, he has very smart ideas but at the same time, he didn't have a "leader" appearance.
Jack appears as very irrational- he makes his own decisions and gives himself very specific goals (such as hunting). it feels like he is trying very hard to leave a certain type of impression on the kids.
RALPH represent morality and leadership, but Jack has another different type of ideas in how to maintain the order in the other group of kids.
Piggy, is a boy that shows more maturity of the group, he has brilliant ideas and he is very thoughtful, for that he is more rationality and intellectual that others kids.
Ralph, shows all qualities to be a leader, he has a good charisma, he is sympathetic, and his speech gives a hope to others kids because he tries to the organizing the new place with rules of civilization.
Jack, wants to be a leader too, but when he is not elected for the others kids, maybe he felt pain and shame when he was rejected, and step by step he turned more selfishness and his desire for power will open the door to the dark side, because his behavior is very rude with Piggy and Ralph
ralph is represent morality and leadership. He gave chances to everbody to speak out their thoughts and sets some rules to follow.
Jack represent desire for power and selfish. he was the leader of the choir , so he desired for the chief position as well.and he is not kind to the others especially cruelled to Piggy.
Piggy stand for rationalty and intellectualism. he always gave ideas to Ralph . Piggy is a thinker but not shown his leadership. He is more like Ralph s assistant.
Ralph represents morality and leadership, Ralph is capable to be a leader he show to the group that he cares about the others and he also organize the group.
Jack represents desire for power and selfishness, jack desire the leader so he could have that power and ruling the group just to focus on hunting, and he doesn’t care about the other kids .
Piggy represents rationality and intellection , piggy have a lot of idea that can use it on the island , his intelligence.
Ralph represents morality and leadership. Because he makes the right decisions for civilizations. He defenses equality, speech right, sharing tasks. He has a good moral. He feels himself responsible about the littlun's safety and comfort.
Jack represents desire for power and selfishness. Because of he is allready the choir leader, he believes he should be the chief. He is selfish because he dosn't give right to speak to the other boys.
Piggy represents rationalism and intellectualism. He knows how to use the conch. The other boys doesn't care him but his ideas are right. He is rationalist. He says things to do in order and everybody should act proper.
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